1867.16

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Baseball's Resemblance to English Rounders Discussed

Salience	Noteworthy
Tags	Pre-modern RulesPre-modern Rules
Location
City/State/Country:	United States
Modern Address
Game	Base Ball, Irish RoundersBase Ball, Irish Rounders
Immediacy of Report	Contemporary
Age of Players	AdultAdult
Holiday
Notables
Text	"I have mentioned base-ball as one of our principal out-door games. We play cricket, but base-ball is to our lads what cricket is to yours. It is the English ball game “rounders,” but developed into something much more interesting and important. It is preferred to cricket, because the play is more varied and less formal; but nevertheless it has become a very formidable and solemn game."  Sydney Morning Herald, April 11, 1867, quoting the London Spectator
Sources	[from “Yankee Pastimes” by “A Yankee”],  Sydney Morning Herald April 11, 1867, quoting the London Spectator.
Warning
Comment	Finder Richard Hershberger also notes,  6/3/2016: The distinction between baseball as a developed version of rounders and baseball as a development from rounders is subtle, but I think it is important.  In the first, baseball/rounders is perceived as a family of closely related games, some more and some less developed.  In the second, baseball is a single game defined by an official set of rules, descended but distinct from rounders.  The former emphasizes the similarities, the latter the differences.  This is a necessary precursor to the later claim that baseball is completely unrelated to rounders.   This is a late example of the formula that baseball and rounders are the same game, albeit baseball a more developed form.  You can find such statements in the 1850s, but by 1867 the more typical version was that baseball developed from rounders.  Here is English commentary on the [1874] American baseball tourists: "Baseball is an American modification, and, of course, an improvement of the old English game of rounders..." New York Sunday Mercury, August 16, 1874, quoting the London Post of August 1, 1874 Edit with form to add a comment
Query	Is Protoball correct in thinking that the unnamed American's quote had appeared in an earlier "Yankee Pastimes" column in the London Spectator, and was then cited in the Sydney (Australia?) Morning Herald of April 11, 1867?      Edit with form to add a query
Source Image	[[Image:|left|thumb]]
External Number
Submitted by	Richard Hershberger
Submission Note	Posting to 19CBB, 6/3/2016
Has Supplemental Text

1867.16 Baseball's Resemblance to English Rounders Discussed"

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