1855.47: Difference between revisions
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<p>PBall item [[1855.35]] New Jersey Comes over to the NY Game</p> | <p>PBall item [[1855.35]] New Jersey Comes over to the NY Game</p> | ||
<p>PBall item [[1855.36]] African Americans Play in NJ</p> | <p>PBall item [[1855.36]] African Americans Play in NJ</p> | ||
<p>PBall item 1855.40]] First Junior Base Ball Club Founded</p> | <p>PBall item [[1855.40]] First Junior Base Ball Club Founded</p> | ||
<h3 id="14367" class="entry"> </h3> | <h3 id="14367" class="entry"> </h3> | ||
|Warning=<p>Note: as of January 2023, we are uncertain whether this game was played by modern (Knickerbocker) rules.</p> | |Warning=<p>Note: as of January 2023, we are uncertain whether this game was played by modern (Knickerbocker) rules. See John Zinn's assessment, below.</p> | ||
|Comment=<p> </p> | |Comment=<p> </p> | ||
<p> </p> | <p> </p> | ||
<p>From leading NJ base ball researcher John Zinn, 1/10/2023</p> | |||
<div class="default-style">"For the moment, I'd recommend holding off on designating this or any other 1855 game as the first game New Jersey clubs played by New York rules. I believe the only things we know about the July game is there were nine on a side and the score was 31-10. If they were playing by New York rules the game should have ended when the Newark club reached 21, although it's possible they reached 31 in the top of an inning and so the game didn't end until the Oriental (later the Olympic Club) had their last at bat.</div> | |||
<div class="default-style"> </div> | |||
<div class="default-style">It seems pretty certain that in 1855 both the Newark and Jersey City clubs started out playing either a different "baseball" game or a hybrid of something they knew and the New York game. In the case of Jersey City, the early involvement of the New York clubs playing at Elysian Fields most likely got them on to the New York rules. How that happened in Newark is less certain, but by the end of the 1855 season, the teams from both cities were playing by the New York rules.</div> | |||
<div class="default-style"> </div> | |||
<div class="default-style">If these first New Jersey clubs started out playing by something other than New York rules, it suggests as far as New Jersey was concerned, Tom Gilbert's suggestion of New York/Brooklyn players moving someplace and taking the game with them doesn't apply. Otherwise, they would have started out playing by the New York rules.</div> | |||
<div class="default-style"> </div> | |||
<div class="default-style">In the relatively near future, I'll put sometime into applying some criteria to the limited information we have about the 1855 games and see if I can come up with a systematic approach to identifying the first game by New York rules. First, however, I want to spend a week or so intensely looking at whether I can find a feasible explanation or explanations as to how the New York game got from Manhattan to Newark."</div> | |||
<p> </p> | <p> </p> | ||
<p> </p> | <p> </p> | ||
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<p>[] Do we know whether it was played by Knick rules, in fact?</p> | <p>[] Do we know whether it was played by Knick rules, in fact?</p> | ||
|Submitted by=Craig Waff | |Submitted by=Craig Waff | ||
|Submission Note=Waff's Games Tab | |||
|Reviewed=Yes | |Reviewed=Yes | ||
|Has Supplemental Text=No | |Has Supplemental Text=No | ||
}} | }} | ||
<p>55</p> | <p>55</p> | ||
Revision as of 14:03, 10 January 2023
 |
| Prominent Milestones |
| Misc BB Firsts |
| Add a Misc BB First |
| About the Chronology |
| Tom Altherr Dedication |
| Add a Chronology Entry |
| Open Queries |
| Open Numbers |
| Most Aged |
Newark Club Hosts Jersey City -- Earliest Knick-rules Tilt in NJ?
| Salience | Prominent |
|---|---|
| Tags | Antedated FirstsAntedated Firsts |
| Location | |
| City/State/Country: | Newark, NJ, United States |
| Modern Address | |
| Game | |
| Immediacy of Report | Contemporary |
| Age of Players | AdultAdult |
| Holiday | |
| Notables | |
| Text | A Newark club defeated the (NJ) Olympic Club in July 1855 at the club's grounds in Newark. “The first match in New Jersey … some very spirited play on the part of the Newark club, …”)
|
| Sources | [1] "New-Jersey Base Ball, NYDT, July 18, 1855 [2] "Base Ball: Newark vs Olympic Club, Spirit of the Times, July 21, 1855 [3] "The Newark and Olympic Clubs, NYC {?}, July 1855.
For context, see also: See https://protoball.org/Games_Tab:Greater_New_York_City#1855 https://protoball.org/Club_of_Newark, which includes 21 of the club's games, 1855-1864 PBall item 1855.35 New Jersey Comes over to the NY Game PBall item 1855.36 African Americans Play in NJ PBall item 1855.40 First Junior Base Ball Club Founded |
| Warning | Note: as of January 2023, we are uncertain whether this game was played by modern (Knickerbocker) rules. See John Zinn's assessment, below. |
| Comment |
From leading NJ base ball researcher John Zinn, 1/10/2023 "For the moment, I'd recommend holding off on designating this or any other 1855 game as the first game New Jersey clubs played by New York rules. I believe the only things we know about the July game is there were nine on a side and the score was 31-10. If they were playing by New York rules the game should have ended when the Newark club reached 21, although it's possible they reached 31 in the top of an inning and so the game didn't end until the Oriental (later the Olympic Club) had their last at bat.
It seems pretty certain that in 1855 both the Newark and Jersey City clubs started out playing either a different "baseball" game or a hybrid of something they knew and the New York game. In the case of Jersey City, the early involvement of the New York clubs playing at Elysian Fields most likely got them on to the New York rules. How that happened in Newark is less certain, but by the end of the 1855 season, the teams from both cities were playing by the New York rules.
If these first New Jersey clubs started out playing by something other than New York rules, it suggests as far as New Jersey was concerned, Tom Gilbert's suggestion of New York/Brooklyn players moving someplace and taking the game with them doesn't apply. Otherwise, they would have started out playing by the New York rules.
In the relatively near future, I'll put sometime into applying some criteria to the limited information we have about the 1855 games and see if I can come up with a systematic approach to identifying the first game by New York rules. First, however, I want to spend a week or so intensely looking at whether I can find a feasible explanation or explanations as to how the New York game got from Manhattan to Newark."
Edit with form to add a comment |
| Query | [] Can we add any details, or context, for this early game? [] Do we know whether it was played by Knick rules, in fact? Edit with form to add a query |
| Source Image | [[Image:|left|thumb]] |
| External Number | |
| Submitted by | Craig Waff |
| Submission Note | Waff's Games Tab |
| Has Supplemental Text |
1855.47 Newark Club Hosts Jersey City -- Earliest Knick-rules Tilt in NJ?"
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