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|Sources=<p>Alfred H. Spink, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">The National Game</span> (2nd Edition, Southern Illinois University Press: First edition, 1910), page 63. </p> | |Sources=<p>Alfred H. Spink, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">The National Game</span> (2nd Edition, Southern Illinois University Press: First edition, 1910), page 63. </p> | ||
|Comment=<p>[] Spink did not report his sources for the Chicago or Alton town ball items. </p> | |Comment=<p>[] Spink did not report his sources for the Chicago or Alton town ball items. </p> | ||
<p>--</p> | |||
<p>[] Note:<span style="text-decoration: underline;"> </span>As of 2023, Protoball has 9 entries for Illinois town ball prior to 1856. See chron entries 1820s.5, 1820s.23, 1830s.16, 1830s.23, 1834.9, 1840s.41 1846.9, 1850s.30, and 1852.8. The following 1866 comparison of base ball and town ball from an Illinois source throws some light on regional town ball practices for that era: </p> | <p>[] Note:<span style="text-decoration: underline;"> </span>As of 2023, Protoball has 9 entries for Illinois town ball prior to 1856. See chron entries 1820s.5, 1820s.23, 1830s.16, 1830s.23, 1834.9, 1840s.41 1846.9, 1850s.30, and 1852.8. The following 1866 comparison of base ball and town ball from an Illinois source throws some light on regional town ball practices for that era: </p> | ||
<p>"Base Ball resembles our old-fashioned favorite game of <span class="sought_text">Town Ball</span> sufficiently to naturalize it very quickly. It is governed by somewhat elaborate rules, but the practice is quite simple. Nine persons on a side, including the Captains, play it. Four bases are placed ninety feet apart, in the figure of a diamond. The Batsman, Ball Pitcher, and one Catcher, take the same position as in <span class="sought_text">Town Ball</span>. Of the outside, besides the Pitcher and Catcher, one is posted at each base, one near the Pitcher, called the “Short Stop,”—whose duty is the same as the others in the field—to stop the ball. The Innings take the bat in rotation, as in <span class="sought_text">Town Ball</span>,—and are called by the Scorer. The ball is pitched, not thrown to them—a distance of fifty feet. The Batsman is permitted to strike at three “fair” balls, without danger of being put out by a catch, but hit or miss, must run at the third “fair” ball. He may “tip” or hit a foul ball as often as the Umpire may call foul, so he be not caught out flying, or on the first bound. When he runs, he must make the base before the ball reaches the point to which he runs, or he is out. And three men out, puts out the entire side. Those who are put out may continue to strike and run bases until the third man is out.</p> | <p>"Base Ball resembles our old-fashioned favorite game of <span class="sought_text">Town Ball</span> sufficiently to naturalize it very quickly. It is governed by somewhat elaborate rules, but the practice is quite simple. Nine persons on a side, including the Captains, play it. Four bases are placed ninety feet apart, in the figure of a diamond. The Batsman, Ball Pitcher, and one Catcher, take the same position as in <span class="sought_text">Town Ball</span>. Of the outside, besides the Pitcher and Catcher, one is posted at each base, one near the Pitcher, called the “Short Stop,”—whose duty is the same as the others in the field—to stop the ball. The Innings take the bat in rotation, as in <span class="sought_text">Town Ball</span>,—and are called by the Scorer. The ball is pitched, not thrown to them—a distance of fifty feet. The Batsman is permitted to strike at three “fair” balls, without danger of being put out by a catch, but hit or miss, must run at the third “fair” ball. He may “tip” or hit a foul ball as often as the Umpire may call foul, so he be not caught out flying, or on the first bound. When he runs, he must make the base before the ball reaches the point to which he runs, or he is out. And three men out, puts out the entire side. Those who are put out may continue to strike and run bases until the third man is out.</p> | ||
<p> | <p>--</p> | ||
<p>"The Bases form a diamond, the angles of which are occupied by the Batsman and Catcher, and one of the outside at each angle. All putting out on the corners is by getting the ball there before the runner for the inside reaches the base, by catching the ball flying when a fair ball is struck, or by catching a foul ball after it is struck, either when flying or at first bound. A distinctive peculiarity of the game consists in the fact that when a ball is struck by the Batsman it must fly either on an exact angle, or inside of the angles formed by the base occupied by the Batsman, and the bases right and left of him. All balls deflecting from these angles are “foul.”</p> | <p>[] An 1866 description from Illinois:</p> | ||
<p> | <p> "The Bases form a diamond, the angles of which are occupied by the Batsman and Catcher, and one of the outside at each angle. All putting out on the corners is by getting the ball there before the runner for the inside reaches the base, by catching the ball flying when a fair ball is struck, or by catching a foul ball after it is struck, either when flying or at first bound. A distinctive peculiarity of the game consists in the fact that when a ball is struck by the Batsman it must fly either on an exact angle, or inside of the angles formed by the base occupied by the Batsman, and the bases right and left of him. All balls deflecting from these angles are “foul.”</p> | ||
<p> "The above is merely a general view of the game. It is very easy to learn, and is capital sport, barring the cannon ball which the players are expected to catch in rather soft hands. Ladies will enjoy the game, and of course are expected as admiring spectators.</p> | |||
<p><em>Source: Daily <span class="sought_text">Illinois</span> State Journal</em>, May 1866:see https://protoball.org/Clipping:A_comparison_of_base_ball_and_town_ball, from the Hershberger Clippings data base. </p> | <p><em>Source: Daily <span class="sought_text">Illinois</span> State Journal</em>, May 1866:see https://protoball.org/Clipping:A_comparison_of_base_ball_and_town_ball, from the Hershberger Clippings data base. </p> | ||
<p> | <p>--</p> | ||
<p><span class="source" title="Source">[] On May20 2023, Bruce Allardice relayed his doubt about evidence of town ball in Chicago in the mid 1850s: </span></p> | <p><span class="source" title="Source">[] On May20 2023, Bruce Allardice relayed his doubt about evidence of town ball in Chicago in the mid 1850s: </span></p> | ||
<div dir="ltr">"Andreas' Chicago says the Union <strong>Base Ball</strong> Club was formed in 1856. Protoball has a cite I found from a local newspaper about the formation of this <strong>base ball</strong> club in 1856 [[add ref?]]. In the absence of better evidence to the contrary, we must assume that this club played base, not town, ball. And the game this Union Club played in 1858 was reported as base ball.</div> | <div dir="ltr">"Andreas' Chicago says the Union <strong>Base Ball</strong> Club was formed in 1856. Protoball has a cite I found from a local newspaper about the formation of this <strong>base ball</strong> club in 1856 [[add ref?]]. In the absence of better evidence to the contrary, we must assume that this club played base, not town, ball. And the game this Union Club played in 1858 was reported as base ball.</div> | ||
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<div dir="ltr">I haven't found anything that suggests the 1856 Union BBC played town ball. It may have, but the club name and 1858 game create a rebuttable presumption that they played baseball."</div> | <div dir="ltr">I haven't found anything that suggests the 1856 Union BBC played town ball. It may have, but the club name and 1858 game create a rebuttable presumption that they played baseball."</div> | ||
<div dir="ltr"> </div> | <div dir="ltr"> </div> | ||
<div dir="ltr">[] In a series of Protoball searches on 5/20/2023, the only appearance of town ball in Chicago, other than that claimed by Spink, in is chronology entry [[1864c.56]], in which a Confederate prisoner said that prisoners | <div dir="ltr">[] In a series of Protoball searches on 5/20/2023, the only appearance of town ball in Chicago, other than that claimed by Spink, in is chronology entry [[1864c.56]], in which a Confederate prisoner said that prisoners "were allowed to play town ball."</div> | ||
<div dir="ltr"> </div> | <div dir="ltr"> </div> | ||
<div dir="ltr">==</div> | <p>--</p> | ||
<p>[] An overview from Richard Hershberger, 5/22/2023: "</p> | |||
<div dir="ltr">"There is much confusion of vocabulary here. As I have long preached, premodern baseball went by three major names, varying by region. 'Base ball' was used in New York state, New England, anglophone Canada, and the Great Lakes region. 'Town ball' was the standard term in Pennsylvania (apart from Erie), the Ohio River valley, and the South. 'Round ball' was used in New England, where it coexisted with 'base ball.' "Base ball" and "town ball" coexisted in the upper Mississippi River valley. </div> | |||
<div dir="ltr"> </div> | |||
<div dir="ltr">Premodern baseball, regardless of what it was called, was played throughout anglophone North America. So when was it introduced to Chicago? When there were enough White settlers to get up a game. Asking whether it was really town ball rather than base ball is meaningless: like asking whether you fuel your car with gas or with petrol. Asking if they played the 'Massachusetts game' is similarly fraught. What do we mean by this? If we mean the rules adopted by the Dedham convention in 1858, then suggesting it was played in Chicago in 1857 raises an obvious difficulty. If we mean something else by "Massachusetts game," what is this? How do we recognize it in the wild?</div> | |||
<div dir="ltr"> </div> | |||
<div dir="ltr">What we do know is that by 1858 there were a handful of clubs in Chicago playing some sort of baseball, and that on July 21 they held a convention and adopted the New York game rules. See the Chicago Tribune of July 9 and July 23. We don't know if some or all of these clubs were already using these rules, or how they learned the rules." </div> | |||
<p> ===</p> | |||
<p> </p> | |||
<p> </p> | |||
<p> </p> | |||
<p><span class="source" title="Source"> </span></p> | |||
<p><span class="source" title="Source"> </span></p> | <p><span class="source" title="Source"> </span></p> | ||
|Query=<p>Could some Illinoian help us better understand the early importance of town ball in that fine state? </p> | |Query=<p>Could some Illinoian help us better understand the early importance of town ball in that fine state? </p> | ||
|Submitted by=John Freyer | |Submitted by=John Freyer, Bruce Allardice | ||
|Submission Note= | |Submission Note=Messages in May 2023 | ||
|Reviewed=Yes | |Reviewed=Yes | ||
|Has Supplemental Text=No | |Has Supplemental Text=No | ||
}} | }} | ||
Latest revision as of 06:40, 23 May 2023
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Town Ball Played in Chicago in 1856?
| Salience | Peripheral |
|---|---|
| Tags | Pre-modern RulesPre-modern Rules |
| Location | |
| City/State/Country: | Chicago, IL, United States |
| Modern Address | |
| Game | Town BallTown Ball |
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| Age of Players | AdultAdult |
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| Text | "There seems to be some doubt as to when the first baseball club was organized in Chicago, but it has been stated that a club called the Unions played town ball there in 1856. . . . we have a record of town ball being played at Alton IL on Saturday, June 19, 1858." |
| Sources | Alfred H. Spink, The National Game (2nd Edition, Southern Illinois University Press: First edition, 1910), page 63. |
| Warning | |
| Comment | [] Spink did not report his sources for the Chicago or Alton town ball items. -- [] Note: As of 2023, Protoball has 9 entries for Illinois town ball prior to 1856. See chron entries 1820s.5, 1820s.23, 1830s.16, 1830s.23, 1834.9, 1840s.41 1846.9, 1850s.30, and 1852.8. The following 1866 comparison of base ball and town ball from an Illinois source throws some light on regional town ball practices for that era: "Base Ball resembles our old-fashioned favorite game of Town Ball sufficiently to naturalize it very quickly. It is governed by somewhat elaborate rules, but the practice is quite simple. Nine persons on a side, including the Captains, play it. Four bases are placed ninety feet apart, in the figure of a diamond. The Batsman, Ball Pitcher, and one Catcher, take the same position as in Town Ball. Of the outside, besides the Pitcher and Catcher, one is posted at each base, one near the Pitcher, called the “Short Stop,”—whose duty is the same as the others in the field—to stop the ball. The Innings take the bat in rotation, as in Town Ball,—and are called by the Scorer. The ball is pitched, not thrown to them—a distance of fifty feet. The Batsman is permitted to strike at three “fair” balls, without danger of being put out by a catch, but hit or miss, must run at the third “fair” ball. He may “tip” or hit a foul ball as often as the Umpire may call foul, so he be not caught out flying, or on the first bound. When he runs, he must make the base before the ball reaches the point to which he runs, or he is out. And three men out, puts out the entire side. Those who are put out may continue to strike and run bases until the third man is out. -- [] An 1866 description from Illinois: "The Bases form a diamond, the angles of which are occupied by the Batsman and Catcher, and one of the outside at each angle. All putting out on the corners is by getting the ball there before the runner for the inside reaches the base, by catching the ball flying when a fair ball is struck, or by catching a foul ball after it is struck, either when flying or at first bound. A distinctive peculiarity of the game consists in the fact that when a ball is struck by the Batsman it must fly either on an exact angle, or inside of the angles formed by the base occupied by the Batsman, and the bases right and left of him. All balls deflecting from these angles are “foul.” "The above is merely a general view of the game. It is very easy to learn, and is capital sport, barring the cannon ball which the players are expected to catch in rather soft hands. Ladies will enjoy the game, and of course are expected as admiring spectators. Source: Daily Illinois State Journal, May 1866:see https://protoball.org/Clipping:A_comparison_of_base_ball_and_town_ball, from the Hershberger Clippings data base. -- [] On May20 2023, Bruce Allardice relayed his doubt about evidence of town ball in Chicago in the mid 1850s: "Andreas' Chicago says the Union Base Ball Club was formed in 1856. Protoball has a cite I found from a local newspaper about the formation of this base ball club in 1856 add ref?. In the absence of better evidence to the contrary, we must assume that this club played base, not town, ball. And the game this Union Club played in 1858 was reported as base ball.
IMO the Spinks reference ("it has been stated") isn't exact enough to refute this.
I haven't found anything that suggests the 1856 Union BBC played town ball. It may have, but the club name and 1858 game create a rebuttable presumption that they played baseball."
[] In a series of Protoball searches on 5/20/2023, the only appearance of town ball in Chicago, other than that claimed by Spink, in is chronology entry 1864c.56, in which a Confederate prisoner said that prisoners "were allowed to play town ball."
-- [] An overview from Richard Hershberger, 5/22/2023: " "There is much confusion of vocabulary here. As I have long preached, premodern baseball went by three major names, varying by region. 'Base ball' was used in New York state, New England, anglophone Canada, and the Great Lakes region. 'Town ball' was the standard term in Pennsylvania (apart from Erie), the Ohio River valley, and the South. 'Round ball' was used in New England, where it coexisted with 'base ball.' "Base ball" and "town ball" coexisted in the upper Mississippi River valley.
Premodern baseball, regardless of what it was called, was played throughout anglophone North America. So when was it introduced to Chicago? When there were enough White settlers to get up a game. Asking whether it was really town ball rather than base ball is meaningless: like asking whether you fuel your car with gas or with petrol. Asking if they played the 'Massachusetts game' is similarly fraught. What do we mean by this? If we mean the rules adopted by the Dedham convention in 1858, then suggesting it was played in Chicago in 1857 raises an obvious difficulty. If we mean something else by "Massachusetts game," what is this? How do we recognize it in the wild?
What we do know is that by 1858 there were a handful of clubs in Chicago playing some sort of baseball, and that on July 21 they held a convention and adopted the New York game rules. See the Chicago Tribune of July 9 and July 23. We don't know if some or all of these clubs were already using these rules, or how they learned the rules."
===
Edit with form to add a comment |
| Query | Could some Illinoian help us better understand the early importance of town ball in that fine state? Edit with form to add a query |
| Source Image | [[Image:|left|thumb]] |
| External Number | |
| Submitted by | John Freyer, Bruce Allardice |
| Submission Note | Messages in May 2023 |
| Has Supplemental Text |
1856.39 Town Ball Played in Chicago in 1856?"
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